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Spaceempires.net :: Interest in SE5 "Expansion"? :: View topic
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Interest in SE5 "Expansion"?
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Would you be interested in a modest SE5 Expansion?
Yes
96%
 96%  [ 130 ]
No
3%
 3%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 135

Author Message
CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Interest in SE5 "Expansion"? Reply with quote

Greetings.

This is a reciprocal thread of one I posted here:
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/6674

It's based on an effort originally initiated by Prisoner881 as first posted here (Thread goes a bit OT):
http://www.spaceempires.net/ftopict-6892.html

---

There's been an ongoing effort to see if Malfador Machinations and Strategy First are willing to put together a modest "expansion" for SE5. The initial thought was such an expansion might contain a DirectX upgrade for Vista/Windows7 along with bug fixes, some UI work, and some minor feature implementation. It's been estimated that such a project can be done for less than $5,000.

There's basically two ways (with shades between) to go about funding it. Either the community can raise money to help cover the costs and the upgrade would be free, or if Strategy First antes up the money first and then a nominal fee (~$5-$10?) can be charged for the patch and a new edition could be marketed and sold to new users.

Either way, are you guys interested in seeing such a project? Some things to keep in mind are that SE6 is not close at all or even a definite future possibility and that this effort is being pushed from the bottom up - it's not a "cash grab" from MM/SFI. If there is enough interest, then plans can be made with MM/SFI to move forward.

Reply to the poll with a 'Yes' or 'No' to the general idea of an expansion as described. You can post a brief comment if you want.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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cb6dba
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 15, 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like 100% for the yeah's..

Ok, I am the only person who has voted...

I would have no problem stumping up 5-10 of the local currency to pay for an expansion - as long as it doesn't bigger up any of the mods Confused

However, if I am handing over some of that hard earned paper stuff I get for putting up with crap at work, I kind of expect something that doesn't feel half finished and thrown together in 5 minutes.

I wouldn't expect that here mind, we are not dealing with Atari and this game isn't moo3 Evil or Very Mad


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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This (obviously) gets a "yes" from me.

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ForesterSOF
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 23, 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also say yes.

I feel it is a dream the SEVI will come in the next decade if at all.

I also see the Future of this game as SEV modernized as much as possible and BM 1.2 becoming the base.


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gloryhound
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 24, 2008
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You Got my Vote

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Ender
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 18, 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it includes substantial UI improvements that will actually make late games in large quadrants playable then the answer is "definitely yes". If it additionally includes modding tools similar to requested by me and it has supply bugs finally dealt with then the answer is "it would be wonderful!". It would be nice, though, not to find throngs of new bugs after its release that MM takes years to correct...

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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ender wrote:
If it includes substantial UI improvements that will actually make late games in large quadrants playable then the answer is "definitely yes".


I completely agree. IMO, SE5's UI is the game's greatest flaw.


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Felgerkarb
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 06, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Count me in, there is no other game like this around that has kept my interest as long. Being an old Starfire player, discovering the SE series has been a gift from the gods.

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Shiva
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 25, 2009

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

I'm using XP too, so I would be most interested in bug fixes. MANY BUG FIXES. Hey, but isn't that a norm that maker of a game releases patches for free?


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Lou_Cyphre
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 21, 2009

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes

W7 compatible and Gui is important for me, but I do feel bug fixing should be a free patch.

also when they sell new copies of s5 they should include the upgrade in the price. Very few new ppl will invest in an upgrade to play online when the ai is so "bad".


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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shiva wrote:
Yes.

I'm using XP too, so I would be most interested in bug fixes. MANY BUG FIXES. Hey, but isn't that a norm that maker of a game releases patches for free?


Aaron isn't being paid by SF anymore for fixing SE5, so patches get done on a when-Aaron-has-time basis. That means nothing gets done very fast, and bigger things don't get done at all. The idea here is we put together a list of exactly what we want done -- big and small -- and offer a reward for doing it quickly and completely.

Don't think of it as a patch. Think of it as an expansion pack that happens to include patches. If it was just patches then I wouldn't pay for it, either. I'm willing to pay for additional functionality.


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Ender
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 18, 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's really the way you describe then perhaps we should make a list of things to do and pay him to do them... hmm... unofficially Wink

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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you meant that tongue in cheek, but I've investigated that option. At first Aaron said it would have to go through SF since they own the rights to the franchise. However, I spoke with the SF product manager last week. He said SF is potentially open to us running this entirely without SF involvement. That's not the same as saying they will do such a thing, but it does mean they're at least open to the idea.

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edge1218
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, makes me wonder if the pitch should be to SF to somehow arrange for access to hard code vice small improvements. Think of the improvements and expansion possibilities...

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Troye
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 23, 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be willing to paye for an expansion but only if it added new features rather than just fixing whats already there, bug fixes are great of course but costumers shouldnt have to paye extra for them.

This gets a yes from me but I would like to see:

-Graphical update (dosnt have to be huge just better textures/models and UI)
-New features: New ship types or costum game posibilities etc
-Of course bug fixes


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rnl
Space Emperor


Joined: Jun 02, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like to see a widget feature, about 20+ modding and scripting function, full access to the layout of the inferface, allow tech levels to go down, and the ability to read objects abilities (Warp point cloak +) With all these plus fixs I would love to pay more money(10-15).

Rnl


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TheThirdEye
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If it includes substantial UI improvements that will actually make late games in large quadrants playable then the answer is "definitely yes".

Hear Hear...

Bug fixes are currently my primary concern, as there isn't an area I can think of that doesn't have bugs, if only minor ones in some places.
The UI is the biggest bug in many ways.

New functionality? Well, functional AI's in stock would be nice, and would keep new players from quitting out of hand.

If everything in the game Now is rendered bug free... I'd buy it again, (and possibly a copy for a friend too).

I believe in the free patches principle, but that is not possible for a one man operation like Aaron. Perhaps he should take on helpers?
I think there are those here who would be interested...
As only a hobbyist programmer myself, I would recommend others...


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TheChin
Space Emperor


Joined: Nov 07, 2008
Location: Cleveland, Oh

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be willing to pay upwards of $20 for an expansion. I'd be happy with the following included:

1. bug fixes
2. UI tweaks
2.1 Make text boxes more edit friendly.
2.2 Copy and paste text from outside program into diplomacy dialog.
2.3 Keep running communications history with other Empires
2.4 Ability to save UI setup. (Filter settings and such).
3. Feature changes
3.1 Add ability to target Weapons Platforms without so much collatoral damage.
3.2 Make Unit Groups (at least Fighter Groups) more like Fleets. Task Forces aren't needed, but the ability to transfer between fleets and create new ones when one is already present would be great.
3.3 Incorporate Fyron's Quadrant Mod.
3.4 Incorporate much of the Balance Mod (AI's, ship formations, some of the more generic stuff that won't break other people's mods).
4. DirectX upgrade so upcoming Windows7 will work. Even an OpenGL port would be nice, but probably prohibitvely complex.

Anything else, like new races, custom shipsets, more ship types, new technologies would just be icing on the cake.


Last edited by TheChin on Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:49 pm; edited 2 times in total


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Tim_Ward
Space Emperor


Joined: Jan 20, 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer is yes. Any additional content or improvements they could squeeze in there would also be appreciated.

Also, Balance Mod for Stock 09 olol


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CaptainKwok
Balance Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some items that I would recommend be included in such a project:

UI
- Allow custom layouts to be saved
- Allow treaties to be saved
- Allow ship designs to be saved
- Allow for editing/deletion of queue lists
- Switch between decks with component selected
- Consolidated cargo lists
- Text box functionality
- Consistent window behaviour
- Allow group selection for combat simulator placement
- Make it easier to add multiple vehicles to combat simulator
- Auto-placement option for sector placement

Gameplay
- Implement some form of warp point sizes
- Implement warp point retreats
- Improvements to Alliance functionality
- Implement damage allocation as per ShieldAndArmorLevels.txt data file
- Implement rare hit types in Settings.txt
- Some new strategy settings (such as retreat setting - ram, etc)

In addition to some bug fixes, some AI improvements, and perhaps inclusion of some custom shipsets or other work etc.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod


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Elethiomel
Space Emperor


Joined: Nov 05, 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Window 7 compatibility would be great. I'd pay $20 with no hesitation for this, any new features would be a bonus.

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Lorq13
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 03, 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely yes. I'm interested in UI improvements and AI improvements, as Kwok has mentioned.

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MikeTn1
Space Emperor


Joined: Oct 23, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes!

I may not be able to immediately pay $20 for a upgraded SE5... but I would do it as soon as possible.


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prisoner881
Space Emperor


Joined: Jul 15, 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainKwok wrote:
Here's some items that I would recommend be included in such a project:

UI
- Allow custom layouts to be saved
- Allow treaties to be saved
- Allow ship designs to be saved
- Allow for editing/deletion of queue lists
- Switch between decks with component selected
- Consolidated cargo lists
- Text box functionality
- Consistent window behaviour
- Allow group selection for combat simulator placement
- Make it easier to add multiple vehicles to combat simulator
- Auto-placement option for sector placement

Gameplay
- Implement some form of warp point sizes
- Implement warp point retreats
- Improvements to Alliance functionality
- Implement damage allocation as per ShieldAndArmorLevels.txt data file
- Implement rare hit types in Settings.txt
- Some new strategy settings (such as retreat setting - ram, etc)

In addition to some bug fixes, some AI improvements, and perhaps inclusion of some custom shipsets or other work etc.


Do things like re-sizable windows and/or re-sizable columns fall under the "consistent window behavior" item? If not, are these practical to add?

Other UI items:

- "Select All" and "Select None" buttons for any screen with lots of selectable buttons (i.e. the queue build screen). The former is badly needed for large, long-running games.
- Retrofitting selection needs some kind of overhaul. Right now you have to select all of one hull type, retrofit, then the next hull type, retrofit...you get the idea. Surely there's a better way to do this, as it's tedious when retrofitting an entire fleet of 50+ ships. Grouping based on ship type and hull size (i.e. all FFG Attack Ships grouped together) and allowing easy group-based upgrades would help a lot.

Other gameplay items

- Carrier/Fighter supply problem needs a permanent fix (you saw this coming a mile away, didn't you? Wink ). There must be no way that launching fighters causes a zero supply condition on a carrier.
- Implementation of some missing techs (e.g. plasma shields, subspace shields) would be nice but not absolutely required.
- Addition of some new techs would be nice as well, although again not required.

Misc. issues

- Improving performance on Vista/Win7. This might be easier than I originally thought. Performance is being killed by the DX8 call to render text. If you hide all available text and turn off ClearType, performance is almost as good as XP. This function is known to be a poor performer even on native DX8 platforms. Perhaps Aaron could find a way to alter the function used to display text without having to do a complete DX9 rewrite. Maybe he could use pre-rendered sprites instead?
- Improving functionality under Win7. Right now the game won't work under Win7 without disabling music. Minor, I know, but if it can be fixed then it should be fixed.

As I've stated earlier, I'm putting $100 into the bounty pool for this update should it come to pass. I might even put in more should enough "golden updates" make it into the final pass.


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Ender
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 18, 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be great if CaptainKwok's recommendations were introduced. It would even be greater if we could additionally get Chin's p.3.2. It would be wonderful if there were as well:


I. UI tweaks

1. Improvements to "Construction Queues" window
- group selection of colonies without necessity of clicking every single one
- "Add to Top" - option to "Add to All" (adds an item as the first one in queue)
- "Remove from all" button (removes the first item in queue asking "Are you sure?")
- "Move down for all" button with an option "Move to Bottom" (moves the first item in queue)

2. Improvements to "Set Construction Queues" window
- "Remove Item" and "Clear Item" protected by "Are you sure?"
- "Constr. Queue Settings" window should be larger and without slide bar

3. Improvements to "Select Package Item" window
- "Tech list" button (list of our tech-levels and our estimations of our trading partner's tech-levels - differences somehow emphasized)

4. Improvements to "Fleet Transfer" window
- consolidated expandable lists (fleets to task forces to vessel types to vessel sizes to design types to designs to vessels - preferably levels definable by players)


II. Gameplay

1. Sector objects
- possibility to issue the same orders for many vessels in the same sector without clicking every one of them
- possibility to issue "Launch/Recover Units Remotely" to many marked vessels in the same sector at the same time

2. Sector View
- stationary vessels really anchored around stationary objects
- vessels returning at the end of turn to places they started it
- marked direction eg. to nearest star
- group selection for placement with possibility to choose predefined formations

3. Join fleet
- as of default, ships should join a task force with the same strategy as theirs
- ships with join fleet order should join the fleet immediately after happen to be in the same sector as the fleet

4. Fleet Transfer minister
- every undamaged vessel with the same strategy as one of fleet's task forces that ends turn in the same sector should be added to the relevant task force
- every vessel damaged to the point that it slows down the fleet significantly should be removed from it immediately

5. Pursuit algorithm
- proportional pursuit at least in case of ships

6. Strategies
- Weapons Range Long from Settings.txt shouldn't be ignored by Long Range engage distance
- main strategies should be called Short, Medium, Long instead of Close, Optimal, Maximum
- one more range in Settings.txt, eg. "very short" (needed for fighters - Point Blank and Maximum Range aren't enough) and Maximum Range engage distance should be created
- Weapon range values from Settings.txt should be implemented in Target Type Order and Settings for ships, bases and units (to determine the preferred distance of engagement based on ranges of enemy vessel weapons) or current additional entries removed

- "Break Formation When In Firing Range" in Movement Options (it shouldn't break on opportunity fire) and "Break Formation When Fired Upon"
- "Stay near formation picket after launch", "Stay near formation escort after launch", "Stay near formation core after launch" in Movement Options
- "Stay near our non-combat ships", "Stay near warp-point", "Retreat into carriers" in Retreat Settings

7. Game Setup
- "Research treaties similar to trade treaties" in Gameplay Options
- "Players start with sight of their home planet, all stars in quadrant and can see all astronomical objects of any system they are currently" in Sight Settings

8. Diplomacy
- improvements to the way game-mechanics see allied players (they should be considered allied having at least full non-aggression signed, not just any treaty)

9. Combat
- area damage
- improvements to damage application (if all components are destroyed in O slots within a quadrant of a ship then damage coming from the direction of this quadrant should be applied to components in I slots instead of the rest of O slot components; a little randomness should be used when determining which exactly component is hit)
- supply/ordnance regeneration in combat (a component ability)
- improvements to the way crew is handled (the smaller crew below obligatory the more it should affect ship performance in combat and outside of it; crew should be replenished automaticaly from other vessels with surplus in the same sector or from colonies in the same system changing crew and experience accordingly; crew picture should be always empire race as to prevent confusion)



III. Modding tools

1. Events
- an option to run events before orders are executed

2. Abilities
- improvements to the way abilities are handled in datafiles so that the whole category of functions that return a value that can be different in different places within an empire for the certain category of objects ( eg. Is_Planet_Domed, Get_Planet_Specific_Facility_Count, Get_System_Specific_Facility_Count, Get_Design_Specific_Component_Count, Get Design_Ability_Total etc.) works properly in ability formulas.

3. Functions
- Sys_Set_Empire_Datafile_Variable(plr_index:long,Val1:string,Val2:Any) for event scripts and Get_Empire_Datafile_Variable(Val1:string) returning Val2 for datafile formulas
- Sys_Grant_Empire_Unique_Discovery
- Sys_Set_Empire_Tech_Level
- Sys_Set_Empire_Fleet_Experience
- Sys_Set_Space_Object_Crew
- Sys_Set_Space_Object_Comp_Tonnage_Damage
- Sys_Empire_Log_Remove_Log_Entry
- Sys_Create_Asteroid_Field
- Sys_Grant_Space_Object_Ability
- Sys_Get_List_Of_Space_Object_Abilities

Edit
Edit2


Last edited by Ender on Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:12 pm; edited 2 times in total


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